The last 50 postings to Klarinet:
Table of Contents
Subject: [kl] (C) Heroes & Heroines of Clarinettistry by Pamela Weston
Subject: RE: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata- to Tony Pay
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: [kl] Which clarinetist are you?
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: [kl] grenadilla conservation: Brenda S-P in Tanzania, Mozambique, UK
Subject: [kl] Buffet Prestige Eb for sale on Ebay.
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: RE: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: [kl] poulenc sonata
Subject: [kl] seeking Golijov
Subject: RE: [kl] seeking Golijov
Subject: RE: [kl] seeking Golijov
Subject: Re: [kl] poulenc sonata
Subject: Re: [kl] seeking Golijov
Subject: RE: [kl] seeking Golijov
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: [kl] recording of Jeanjean's etudes
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: RE: [kl] Vengerov and McCartney
Subject: [kl] Vivaldi
Subject: RE: [kl] Vivaldi
Subject: Re: [kl] Vivaldi
Subject: RE: [kl] Vivaldi
Subject: Re: [kl] Vivaldi
Subject: [kl] Seeking Golijov
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: RE: [kl] Seeking Golijov
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: [kl] Vincent J. Abato Website
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Subject: Re: [kl] Vincent J. Abato Website
Subject: [kl] David Krakauer
Subject: [kl] Gustavino - Sonata
Subject: Re: [kl] Gustavino - Sonata
Subject: Re: [kl] Guastavino - Sonata
Subject: Re: [kl] Gustavino - Sonata
Subject: Re: [kl] Gustavino - Sonata
Subject: [kl] The Poulenc Sonata
Subject: Re: [kl] Gustavino - Sonata
Subject: [kl] New Chamber Music CD containing Clarinet
Subject: [kl] Kabelac Wind Sextet score
Subject: Re: [kl] Kabelac Wind Sextet score
Subject: [kl] Commercial message - Festivals and Prestiges available
[Table of Contents ] [ Next ]
Subject: [kl] (C) Heroes & Heroines of Clarinettistry by Pamela Weston
From: Gary Van Cott <gary@-----.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:43:56 -0400
This book was mentioned a few weeks of on the list. We now have in in
stock.
C1238: Heroes & Heroines of Clarinettistry by Pamela Weston. Trafford
Publishing, 2008, PB, 187 pages. This book contains a representative
selection of articles written over a 40-year period by Pamela Weston.
Fascinating information is revealed on best-known composer/clarinetist
relationships such as Mozart with Anton Stadler, Weber with Heinrich
Baermann, Spohr with Simon Hermstedt and Brahms with Richard M=FChlfeld.
Further subjects include the clarinetists of the French Revolution,
Russia's clarinet dynasty, early 19th-century female performers, the
great Finnish clarinetist Crussell whose diary tells of French
Revolution events and a Napoleonic military parade, Verdi's clarinetist
Cavallini who played for and was on familiar terms with the Tsar, the
full stories of Stanford's concerto and Ireland's Fantasy-Sonata, and
much more. $29.05 + S&H
http://www.vcisinc.com/clarinet.htm#C1238
Gary
--=20
+------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------
| Gary Van Cott - Van Cott Information Services, Inc.
| Woodwind and Brass: Books, Music, CDs and More
| http://www.vcisinc.com/ --> VISA MasterCard Discover AmExp <--
| P.O. Box 9569, Las Vegas, NV 89191, USA
| Phone: 702-438-2102 Fax: 801-650-1719 Email: Gary@-----.com
+------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------
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Subject: RE: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: "Bill Daniluk" <bdaniluk@-----.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:39:15 -0400
Mark, you are AWESOME! Are you sure you're not an incognito reference
librarian?
BD
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Charette [mailto:charette@-----.org]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 7:44 PM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
Sean Osborn wrote:
> Tony mentions having a copy of the corrected manuscript (wouldn't it
> be great if it could be posted on line like the Keggelstatt is. (can't
> find the link now)
>
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=229159&t=229159
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klarinet-owner@-----.org
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Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata- to Tony Pay
From: Joseph Wakeling <joseph.wakeling@-----.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:35:26 -0400
sarah elbaz wrote:
> Tony, Sean and all the list members,
>
> This discussion about the Poulenc sonata is not so simple.
> In Tony's attachements we see the 'problematic' notes in the manuscript.
> But I suppose that Tony knows that there are two manuscripts for the Poulenc sonata
> and that is the reason for the arguments about the four notes between Tony and the French players.
> Guy Deplus ,for example, says that the notes are different and he is very positive about that.
> Philippe Cuper also talked about that in the master class in Northwestern Uni.
> The issue here is why Tony chose that manuscript and not the other one
> and what are the MUSICAL arguments for that?.
Here are some posts on the matter:
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2003/04/001233.txt
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/1999/01/001310.txt
The summary seems to be that Poulenc revised his ms before publication,
but some players are going with what was in the manuscript prior to this
revision.
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Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: Sean Osborn <feanor33@-----.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:55:50 -0400
Fantastic! Thank you Mark.
>http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=229159&t=229159
I'm assuming these four scans represent the notes in question. If
so, then the 9th edition (1983) that I have matches this manuscript perfectly.
Sean
www.osbornmusic.com
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Subject: [kl] Which clarinetist are you?
From: Sean Osborn <feanor33@-----.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:09:35 -0400
http://www.gotoquiz.com/which_clarinetist_are_you
www.osbornmusic.com
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Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: Glenn Kantor <klarinet@-----.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:22:14 -0400
In 1990, (the now deceased) Jerry Pierce (past President ICA, columnist:
"Pierce's Potpourri", noted clarinet historian, etc...) wrote me a long
letter on April 17, 1990 with his thoughts on the different Poulenc
editions.
As he concluded in his letter, he indicated that whichever edition you play,
it really doesn't matter. As Jerry said: "it is all Poulenc - at one time or
another".
Come on now - We are talking about 4 (count 'em 4) notes.
Will the average listener know the difference? no
Will the average clarinetist know the difference? probably not
Who will know? about 1% of any listening audience.
Glenn B Kantor (who still happily plays the 1963 edition)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Osborn" <feanor33@-----.net>
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
> Fantastic! Thank you Mark.
>
>>http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=229159&t=229159
>
> I'm assuming these four scans represent the notes in question. If so,
> then the 9th edition (1983) that I have matches this manuscript perfectly.
>
> Sean
> www.osbornmusic.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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Subject: [kl] grenadilla conservation: Brenda S-P in Tanzania, Mozambique, UK
From: BSP6263@-----.com
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:27:57 -0400
Dear Friends,
I depart for the African Blackwood Conservation Project in Northern Tanzani=
a=20
in exactly two weeks! Thanks to all of you who are assisting with this=20
project. Your financial assistance is making it possible for me to travel t=
o rural=20
communities to help to educate the locals about the value of the wood to=20
both them (the tree roots fertilize the soil) and us. I can really use more=
=20
help. You can learn more and still help in several ways. More information i=
s=20
available at _http://blackwoodconservation.org/musicproject08.html_=20
(http://blackwoodconservation.org/musicproject08.html)=20
Once I return, I hope you will be interested to hear what I have to report.=
=20
My lecture-performance =E2=80=9CMpingo=E2=80=99s Fruit =E2=80=93 harvesting=20=
the music tree: the =20
people, the places, the process=E2=80=9D, _http://oboesoftheworld.com/perf3m=
pingo.htm_=20
(http://oboesoftheworld.com/perf3mpingo.htm) , will be updated, and new ph=
otos=20
and video added based on my actual experiences and interviews with locals.
In addition to teaching and playing for the ABCP communities, I=E2=80=99ve=20=
arranged=20
to visit and play for the Mpingo Conservation Project in Southern Tanzania.=
=20
Then, in Northern Mozambique, I=E2=80=99ll visit the Pemba Mpingo sawmill f=
or 10 days.=20
That=E2=80=99s where most of the wood that our instruments are made from, h=
as been=20
harvested since 1900. I=E2=80=99m told that I will be the first musician in=
history to=20
actually fully participate in the harvest of African Blackwood.=20
From there, I=E2=80=99ll head to the Mezimbite Cultural Center where former=
ly=20
impoverished communities are beginning to thrive by creating high end jewel=
ry and=20
furniture from mpingo scraps.
For those of you who live near London, I=E2=80=99ll be giving a presentatio=
n about=20
all of this on October 21 to which you are invited. =20
Please contact me if you want to assist in any way and if you desire any=20
information about any of the above. Please especially let me know if you ar=
e=20
interested to book performances of =E2=80=9CMpingo=E2=80=99s Fruit=E2=80=9D=20=
any time in the future.=20
Very sincerely,
Brenda Schuman-Post
www.oboesoftheworld.com
bsp6263@-----.com
=20
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your trave=
l=20
deal here. =20
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=3Daoltrv00050000000047)
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Subject: [kl] Buffet Prestige Eb for sale on Ebay.
From: "Matthew Lloyd" <matthew@-----.uk>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:59:12 -0400
Buffet Prestige Eb for sale on Ebay.
170255310246
Matthew Lloyd
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Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: "Tony Pay" <tony.p@-----.org>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:02:48 -0400
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Glenn Kantor <klarinet@-----.net> wrote:
>> In 1990, (the now deceased) Jerry Pierce (past President ICA, columnist: "Pierce's Potpourri", noted clarinet historian, etc...) wrote me a long letter on April 17, 1990 with his thoughts on the different Poulenc editions.>>
>> As he concluded in his letter, he indicated that whichever edition you play, it really doesn't matter. As Jerry said: "it is all Poulenc - at one time or another".>>
Yes, I agree with your quote, namely: "it is all Poulenc - at one time
or another." And, that it doesn't really matter which notes you play.
However, what I don't much like is that some people say it is WRONG to
play the notes that are now in the latest edition, and in some
previous editions. I'm talking about people like Philippe Cuper, for
example.
Now, if he and others prefer to play the notes that Poulenc originally
wrote, I have no quarrel with them.
But since it is quite clear that Poulenc changed those notes -- see
the photocopies I posted --, they shouldn't go around the world
bending the ears of the poor students who play what Poulenc finally
endorsed, even in some cases saying that it is a SCANDAL that those
notes be played.
>> Come on now - We are talking about 4 (count 'em 4) notes.
>> Will the average listener know the difference? no
>> Will the average clarinetist know the difference? probably not>>
There are two issues here.
The first is the issue of what notes are played in a particular
performance -- and that doesn't matter much.
The second is the issue of what is correct scholarship. The
photocopies of the manuscript place the CHRONOLOGY of Poulenc's
thoughts beyond doubt. Therefore, it is nonsense for the French
players to claim that their (unaltered) manuscript is the only correct
version.
So, they should acknowledge that; and either present the complete
situation to students, or SHUT UP. It's the only ethically defensible
position.
By the way, in passing, a few years ago I had occasion to record the
Theodore Gouvy Sonata, and used the Musica Rara edition edited by one
Jerry Pierce, of whom I knew nothing. In his introduction, Pierce
stated that Gouvy's phrasing and dynamics were sufficiently
unequivocal to make it possible to publish the work unedited.
Yet, on comparing the clarinet part with the version printed in the
piano score, I found quite substantial differences of phrasing and
dynamics. Anyone playing the part without making that comparison
would in my view have come erroneous conclusions about Gouvy's
intentions.
My first reaction was to contact Jerry Pierce and ask him his reasons
for making these (unacknowledged) changes. Unfortunately, I found
(from this list) that he is no longer with us.
Now, I'm sure that Jerry Pierce was a great man in many ways.
However, with all due respect to Glenn Kantor, this experience
certainly doesn't encourage me to take Pierce's opinion about what we
should do about the Poulenc sonata more seriously than the evidence of
my own eyes.
Tony
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Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: Glenn Kantor <klarinet@-----.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:29:42 -0400
Tony,
Again, referring to (the late) Jerry Pierce's opinions on the Poulenc
Sonata, he wrote that it was Georgina Dobree who was researching the Poulenc
and came across the various drafts that he had made for the work. Anyway,
she decided that some of the notes were "wrong" and convinced Chester to
reprint the work with the changes.
Chester followed through with what Georgina claimed were the final wishes in
the final drafts of Poulenc. The (4 note) changes are really quite minor,
but Chester probably saw an opportunity to gain a few more sales in a later
(different) edition.
True? Not true?
Glenn B Kantor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Pay" <tony.p@-----.org>
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Glenn Kantor <klarinet@-----.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> In 1990, (the now deceased) Jerry Pierce (past President ICA, columnist:
>>> "Pierce's Potpourri", noted clarinet historian, etc...) wrote me a long
>>> letter on April 17, 1990 with his thoughts on the different Poulenc
>>> editions.>>
>
>>> As he concluded in his letter, he indicated that whichever edition you
>>> play, it really doesn't matter. As Jerry said: "it is all Poulenc - at
>>> one time or another".>>
>
> Yes, I agree with your quote, namely: "it is all Poulenc - at one time
> or another." And, that it doesn't really matter which notes you play.
>
> However, what I don't much like is that some people say it is WRONG to
> play the notes that are now in the latest edition, and in some
> previous editions. I'm talking about people like Philippe Cuper, for
> example.
>
> Now, if he and others prefer to play the notes that Poulenc originally
> wrote, I have no quarrel with them.
>
> But since it is quite clear that Poulenc changed those notes -- see
> the photocopies I posted --, they shouldn't go around the world
> bending the ears of the poor students who play what Poulenc finally
> endorsed, even in some cases saying that it is a SCANDAL that those
> notes be played.
>
>>> Come on now - We are talking about 4 (count 'em 4) notes.
>>> Will the average listener know the difference? no
>>> Will the average clarinetist know the difference? probably not>>
>
> There are two issues here.
>
> The first is the issue of what notes are played in a particular
> performance -- and that doesn't matter much.
>
> The second is the issue of what is correct scholarship. The
> photocopies of the manuscript place the CHRONOLOGY of Poulenc's
> thoughts beyond doubt. Therefore, it is nonsense for the French
> players to claim that their (unaltered) manuscript is the only correct
> version.
>
> So, they should acknowledge that; and either present the complete
> situation to students, or SHUT UP. It's the only ethically defensible
> position.
>
> By the way, in passing, a few years ago I had occasion to record the
> Theodore Gouvy Sonata, and used the Musica Rara edition edited by one
> Jerry Pierce, of whom I knew nothing. In his introduction, Pierce
> stated that Gouvy's phrasing and dynamics were sufficiently
> unequivocal to make it possible to publish the work unedited.
>
> Yet, on comparing the clarinet part with the version printed in the
> piano score, I found quite substantial differences of phrasing and
> dynamics. Anyone playing the part without making that comparison
> would in my view have come erroneous conclusions about Gouvy's
> intentions.
>
> My first reaction was to contact Jerry Pierce and ask him his reasons
> for making these (unacknowledged) changes. Unfortunately, I found
> (from this list) that he is no longer with us.
>
> Now, I'm sure that Jerry Pierce was a great man in many ways.
> However, with all due respect to Glenn Kantor, this experience
> certainly doesn't encourage me to take Pierce's opinion about what we
> should do about the Poulenc sonata more seriously than the evidence of
> my own eyes.
>
> Tony
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: "Tony Pay" <tony.p@-----.org>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:10:16 -0400
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 6:29 PM, Glenn Kantor <klarinet@-----.net> wrote:
>> Again, referring to (the late) Jerry Pierce's opinions on the Poulenc Sonata, he wrote that it was Georgina Dobree who was researching the Poulenc and came across the various drafts that he had made for the work. Anyway, she decided that some of the notes were "wrong" and convinced Chester to reprint the work with the changes.>>
>> Chester followed through with what Georgina claimed were the final wishes in the final drafts of Poulenc. The (4 note) changes are really quite minor, but Chester probably saw an opportunity to gain a few more sales in a later (different) edition.
True? Not true?>>
If that's what Jerry Pierce said, it fits with what I know. (I
obtained the photocopy of the MS from (the late) Thea King, who had it
from (the late) Georgina.) The earliest version I have is 1963,
though someone said that there is a 1962 version that contains what
the French players seem to want. Can we confirm that?
So as I said, you can play what you like. But what you can't do is
insist that what you play is RIGHT -- even though if you play what's
in the MS (and both the 1963 and current editions) you CAN claim that
you're playing Poulenc's final thoughts on the matter. (I take it
that no-one is suggesting that the MS was changed by anyone other than
Poulenc.)
What you can claim in the other case isn't quite clear to me.
Tony
--
________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE
tel/fax 01865 553339
mobile +44(0)7790 532980 tony.p@-----.org
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Subject: RE: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: "Keith" <bowenk@-----.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:25:05 -0400
Hi Tony,
As a parallel, Schumann's Fourth symphony is performed in both the 1841
original and 1851 revised versions. The latter represents his final (known)
thoughts (of course, many more than four notes were changed); the former,
his thoughts at the time of original composition, at that time bound up with
his thoughts about Clara. There's surely a case for performing either, each
one being a particular historical snapshot. Were a composer's final thoughts
necessarily 'better' ? They are different, and, as you said in a different
context, you have to approach it differently to make it work musically. But
I absolutely agree, you cannot claim divine prerogative for either approach.
Right and wrong are not the words to use (unless the changed notes were
copyists' or printers' errors, which I believe is not the issue here).
There are of course cases in which the composer made a mistake and wrote on
the autograph a note that was not the one he intended. Those would be
'wrong' ... but awfully difficult to prove.
Keith Bowen
-----Original Message-----
From: klarinet-return-93959-bowenk=compuserve.com@-----.org
[mailto:klarinet-return-93959-bowenk=compuserve.com@-----.org] On Behalf
Of Tony Pay
Sent: 28 August 2008 12:10
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 6:29 PM, Glenn Kantor <klarinet@-----.net>
wrote:
>> Again, referring to (the late) Jerry Pierce's opinions on the Poulenc
Sonata, he wrote that it was Georgina Dobree who was researching the Poulenc
and came across the various drafts that he had made for the work. Anyway,
she decided that some of the notes were "wrong" and convinced Chester to
reprint the work with the changes.>>
>> Chester followed through with what Georgina claimed were the final wishes
in the final drafts of Poulenc. The (4 note) changes are really quite minor,
but Chester probably saw an opportunity to gain a few more sales in a later
(different) edition.
True? Not true?>>
If that's what Jerry Pierce said, it fits with what I know. (I
obtained the photocopy of the MS from (the late) Thea King, who had it
from (the late) Georgina.) The earliest version I have is 1963,
though someone said that there is a 1962 version that contains what
the French players seem to want. Can we confirm that?
So as I said, you can play what you like. But what you can't do is
insist that what you play is RIGHT -- even though if you play what's
in the MS (and both the 1963 and current editions) you CAN claim that
you're playing Poulenc's final thoughts on the matter. (I take it
that no-one is suggesting that the MS was changed by anyone other than
Poulenc.)
What you can claim in the other case isn't quite clear to me.
Tony
--
________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE
tel/fax 01865 553339
mobile +44(0)7790 532980 tony.p@-----.org
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Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: Martin Baxter <martinbaxter@-----.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:56:22 -0400
Pursuant to all this there is a different version of Beethoven's
'Pastoral' (6th) symphony, which I heard Manchester Camerata play in
Ulverston. The provenance of the version was given but there was no
suggestion that the more commonly heard version was therefore
'WRONG"; merely that it represented Beethoven's thoughts at a
different time.
Martin
On 26 Aug 2008, at 18:22, Glenn Kantor wrote:
> In 1990, (the now deceased) Jerry Pierce (past President ICA,
> columnist: "Pierce's Potpourri", noted clarinet historian, etc...)
> wrote me a long letter on April 17, 1990 with his thoughts on the
> different Poulenc editions.
>
> As he concluded in his letter, he indicated that whichever edition
> you play, it really doesn't matter. As Jerry said: "it is all
> Poulenc - at one time or another".
>
> Come on now - We are talking about 4 (count 'em 4) notes.
>
> Will the average listener know the difference? no
> Will the average clarinetist know the difference? probably not
>
> Who will know? about 1% of any listening audience.
>
> Glenn B Kantor (who still happily plays the 1963 edition)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Osborn"
> <feanor33@-----.net>
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
>
>
>> Fantastic! Thank you Mark.
>>
>>> http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?
>>> f=1&i=229159&t=229159
>>
>> I'm assuming these four scans represent the notes in question. If
>> so, then the 9th edition (1983) that I have matches this
>> manuscript perfectly.
>>
>> Sean
>> www.osbornmusic.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: John Dablin <jdablin@-----.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:27:10 -0400
On Thursday 28 August 2008, Martin Baxter wrote:
> Pursuant to all this there is a different version of Beethoven's
> 'Pastoral' (6th) symphony, which I heard Manchester Camerata play
> in Ulverston. The provenance of the version was given but there
> was no suggestion that the more commonly heard version was
> therefore 'WRONG"; merely that it represented Beethoven's
> thoughts at a different time.
> Martin
On the other hand, there's a recording of the original version of=20
Sibelius 5th Symphony (Google tells me it's the Lahti SO, cond.=20
Osmo V=C3=A4nsk=C3=A4). Having heard it on the radio, the final version is=
=20
much tauter and more concise, and to my ears, better. Would=20
Sibelius have approved recording the older version, I wonder?
John Dablin
Aylesbury UK
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Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: "Tony Pay" <tony.p@-----.org>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:56:04 -0400
I wrote:
>> The earliest version I have is 1963, though someone said that there is a 1962 version that contains what the French players seem to want. Can we confirm that?>>
Sarah wrote:
>> Yes, as I wrote in my first post - Deplus told me that there are two Manuscripts.>>
Yes, the one that isn't altered, and the one that is. But I was
speaking of editions, not manuscripts.
Is there a 1962 edition from Chester that contains what the French
players seem to want?
Tony
--
________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE
tel/fax 01865 553339
mobile +44(0)7790 532980 tony.p@-----.org
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Subject: [kl] poulenc sonata
From: "Rien Stein" <rstein@-----.nl>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:57:02 -0400
at this moment there is quite a discussion going on, with Anthony Pay as
central figure, more or less about what is the "true" Poulenc sonata.
Let me tell you: a "true" sonata doesn't exist.
Not only with the above mentioned one, not with Beethoventh' sixth, not with
my "the rabbi laughs".
As a composer you often think that a specific note in a specific place is
the best one you can write. But afterwards you reread the compo, and
consider a different one better, because of the melodic line, because of a
specific harmonic, or whatever.
And you forget about it, till you see or hear the work again, and think the
original note, dynamics or whatever was better. But once published you don't
always go into he trouble of recorrecting what has been published (the
fanfare music composer Leon Vliex once told me so).
Thus anyone claiming Beethoven to be a genius is right and everyone claiming
Rien Stein is a genius is wrong.
Ciao
Rien
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Subject: [kl] seeking Golijov
From: Fred Jacobowitz <fbjacobo@-----.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:58:38 -0400
Can anyone provide me with a phone # and/or e-mail address for
Osvaldo Goliljov? I think he still lives in NYC.
Fred Jacobowitz
Kol Haruach Klezmer Band
Ebony and Ivory Duo
You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note.
~Doug Floyd
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Subject: RE: [kl] seeking Golijov
From: "Daniel Leeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:58:06 -0400
Fred, I think he is the composer in residence for the Boston Symphony. I do
not know where he lives, but the BSO should be able to connect the two of
you.
Good luck.
Dan Leeson
dnleeson@-----.net
SKYPE: dnleeson
-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Jacobowitz [mailto:fbjacobo@-----.net]
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 6:59 PM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: [kl] seeking Golijov
Can anyone provide me with a phone # and/or e-mail address for
Osvaldo Goliljov? I think he still lives in NYC.
Fred Jacobowitz
Kol Haruach Klezmer Band
Ebony and Ivory Duo
You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note.
~Doug Floyd
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Subject: RE: [kl] seeking Golijov
From: "Benjamin Maas" <benmaas@-----.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:00:59 -0400
He's represented through Opus 3 Artists
(http://www.opus3artists.com/artists/osvaldo-golijov)
That would probably be your most direct route to contact him. I've worked
with him a couple times (Mixed Ayre on tour this past spring and at the Ojai
Festival a couple years back). He's a really cool guy. Very well spoken
with a great outlook on music and life.
--Ben
Benjamin Maas
Fifth Circle Audio
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.fifthcircle.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Jacobowitz
> Subject: [kl] seeking Golijov
>
> Can anyone provide me with a phone # and/or e-mail address
> for Osvaldo Goliljov? I think he still lives in NYC.
>
> Fred Jacobowitz
>
> Kol Haruach Klezmer Band
> Ebony and Ivory Duo
>
> You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note.
> ~Doug Floyd
>
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Subject: Re: [kl] poulenc sonata
From: Arthur Acheson <arthur.acheson@-----.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 03:08:22 -0400
On 28 Aug 2008, at 23:57, Rien Stein wrote:
at this moment there is quite a discussion going on, with Anthony Pay
as central figure, more or less about what is the "true" Poulenc sonata.
Let me tell you: a "true" sonata doesn't exist.
Not only with the above mentioned one, not with Beethoventh' sixth,
not with my "the rabbi laughs".
"Art is never finished, only abandoned. .."
Leonardo da Vinci
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Subject: Re: [kl] seeking Golijov
From: Fred Jacobowitz <fbjacobo@-----.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:52:18 -0400
Ben,
I actually have to ask him technical questions and (musically) pick
his brain, so going thru an agent is out of the question - they'll
just run interference.
Fred Jacobowitz
Kol Haruach Klezmer Band
Ebony and Ivory Duo
You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note.
~Doug Floyd
On Aug 29, 2008, at 2:00 AM, Benjamin Maas wrote:
> He's represented through Opus 3 Artists
> (http://www.opus3artists.com/artists/osvaldo-golijov)
>
> That would probably be your most direct route to contact him. I've
> worked
> with him a couple times (Mixed Ayre on tour this past spring and at
> the Ojai
> Festival a couple years back). He's a really cool guy. Very well
> spoken
> with a great outlook on music and life.
>
> --Ben
>
> Benjamin Maas
> Fifth Circle Audio
> Los Angeles, CA
> http://www.fifthcircle.com
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Fred Jacobowitz
>> Subject: [kl] seeking Golijov
>>
>> Can anyone provide me with a phone # and/or e-mail address
>> for Osvaldo Goliljov? I think he still lives in NYC.
>>
>> Fred Jacobowitz
>>
>> Kol Haruach Klezmer Band
>> Ebony and Ivory Duo
>>
>> You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note.
>> ~Doug Floyd
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Subject: RE: [kl] seeking Golijov
From: "Benjamin Maas" <benmaas@-----.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:00:01 -0400
Good luck-
He's a very busy person and is going to be very difficult to reach. Using
his agent may be the best way. From what I understand, he's got so much on
his plate he isn't even accepting new commissions right now- he also travels
a lot and isn't necessarily home regularly.
It depends on who you talk to over at Opus 3. I don't know who his agent is
right now exactly, but the folks I've dealt with over there have been pretty
cool to deal with.
--Ben
Benjamin Maas
Fifth Circle Audio
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.fifthcircle.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Jacobowitz
> Subject: Re: [kl] seeking Golijov
>
> Ben,
> I actually have to ask him technical questions and
> (musically) pick his brain, so going thru an agent is out of
> the question - they'll just run interference.
>
> Fred Jacobowitz
>
> Kol Haruach Klezmer Band
> Ebony and Ivory Duo
>
> You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note.
> ~Doug Floyd
>
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Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: "Tony Pay" <tony.p@-----.org>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:45:27 -0400
I wrote:
>> Is there a 1962 edition from Chester that contains what the French players seem to want?>>
In reply, Sarah wrote:
>> Tony, I wrote Deplus and Cuper (both of them spoke about the 'other one') we'll wait for their answers.>>
What they say may be interesting. But, I still want to ask the
Klarinet list whether anyone has an EDITION from Chester, prior to
1963, that contains the notes the French people want (I'll call it the
'F' version from now on.)
I (we) already know what those notes are, even though I can't quote
the bar numbers and so on, not having a copy in front of me.
I know Deplus and Cuper will also know this, and will say much more.
But the list can probably give me the information, which I want in
order to establish whether the sequence of events was that (a)
Chesters published the F version first, and Georgina persuaded them to
alter it, as Jerry Pierce claims; or that (b) they published the
'Tippex' version first:-)
(Tippex is a white error-correcting fluid.)
Tony
--
________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE
tel/fax 01865 553339
mobile +44(0)7790 532980 tony.p@-----.org
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Subject: [kl] recording of Jeanjean's etudes
From: Paolo Leva <paolo.leva@-----.se>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:45:55 -0400
Is there any recording of Jeanjean's etudes out there?=0A=0AWhile looking i=
n the archive I found this very old message:=0Ahttp://test.woodwind.org/Dat=
abases/Klarinet/1996/01/000483.txt=0A=0ABut I can't find traces of these re=
re bredbandsuppkoppling. =0AS=F6k och j=E4mf=F6r priser hos Kelkoo.=0Ahttp:=
//www.kelkoo.se/c-100015813-bredband.html?partnerId=3D96914325
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Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: clarni bass <clarnibass@-----.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:05:29 -0400
>> I'll call it the 'F' version from now on
Hahaha! :-)
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Subject: RE: [kl] Vengerov and McCartney
From: "Peter Gentry" <peter.gentry@-----.uk>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:20:26 -0400
Save your money Sarah.
regards
Peter Gentry=20
-----Original Message-----
From: sarah elbaz [mailto:sarah@-----.com]=20
Sent: 29 August 2008 20:42
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: Re: [kl] Vengerov and McCartney
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/28/world/middleeast/28beatles.html?_r=3D1&=
scp=3D1
&sq=3Dmccartney%20israel&st=3Dcse&oref=3Dslogin
I got this link from Laura Bardash in NY.
Sarah
> -------Original Message-------
> From: sarah elbaz <sarah@-----.com>
> Subject: [kl] Vengerov and McCartney
> Sent: 29 Aug '08 08:15
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> When Maxim Vengerov was 16 his Family immigrated to Israel.=A0=A0The =
next
morning he came to the Tel Aviv
> Conservatory and said: I need a place to practice.=A0=A0The director =
of the
conservatory told him : ''the place is yours,
> you can practice any time''.
> He didn't forget this favore and when he was a super star he came =
every
year and gave a charity concert in our little (but wonderful) =
auditorium.=A0=A05
years ago he gave a recital with Fasil Say.=A0=A0It was one of the best =
concerts
I ever heard, and if I=A0=A0knew that that would be the last time that I =
hear
Vengerov (he quit playing), I would probably go to the next concert, and =
buy
the very expensive ticket.
> =20
> Now here is my dilemma: in three weeks Paul McCartney(!) will give a
concert on Ha'Yarkon Park - in MY
> neighborhood!=A0=A0 (..my grandmother always told me that one day the =
parade
will march in my street...:-)
> Should I pay 200$ to hear and see Paul McCartney?=A0=A0Or is it too =
little,
too late?
> =20
> Sarah
> =20
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> =20
> =20
------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20
Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.13/1641 - Release Date: =
29/08/2008
07:07
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: [kl] Vivaldi
From: Tom Bassett <bassettt1@-----.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:32:40 -0400
Does anyone know where I can find the vivaldi concerto for 2 oboes and 2 cl=
arinets in C major (RV 559) ?
thanks.
Get thousands of games on your PC=2C your mobile phone=2C and the web with =
Windows=AE.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588800/direct/01/=
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: RE: [kl] Vivaldi
From: "Daniel Leeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:35:52 -0400
I donated a this score (and, if memory serves me correctly, a second of
Vivaldi with the same instrumentation) to the Clarinet Library, which I
think is in Delaware (or is it Maryland).
Dan Leeson
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Bassett [mailto:bassettt1@-----.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:33 AM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: [kl] Vivaldi
Does anyone know where I can find the vivaldi concerto for 2 oboes and 2
clarinets in C major (RV 559) ?
thanks.
Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web with
Windows®.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588800/direct/01/
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: Re: [kl] Vivaldi
From: Gary Van Cott <gary@-----.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:39:03 -0400
I don't see this in the online ICA library catalog.
I did some looking on the Internet and this piece appears to be
published by Ricordi but I did not find it on the Hal Leonard web site
(the US importer).
Gary
+------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------
| Gary Van Cott - Van Cott Information Services, Inc.
| Woodwind and Brass: Books, Music, CDs and More
| http://www.vcisinc.com/ --> VISA MasterCard Discover AmExp <--
| P.O. Box 9569, Las Vegas, NV 89191, USA
| Phone: 702-438-2102 Fax: 801-650-1719 Email: Gary@-----.com
+------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------
Daniel Leeson wrote:
> I donated a this score (and, if memory serves me correctly, a second of=
> Vivaldi with the same instrumentation) to the Clarinet Library, which I=
> think is in Delaware (or is it Maryland).
>=20
> Dan Leeson
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Bassett [mailto:bassettt1@-----.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:33 AM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: [kl] Vivaldi
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Does anyone know where I can find the vivaldi concerto for 2 oboes and =
2
> clarinets in C major (RV 559) ?
>=20
> thanks.
> Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web with
> Windows=AE.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588800/direct/01/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
------------------------------------------------------------------
[Table of Contents ] [ Prev ] [ Next ]
Subject: RE: [kl] Vivaldi
From: "Daniel Leeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:55:55 -0400
Well if they don't have it, they must have lost it because I donated it.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Van Cott [mailto:gary@-----.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 10:39 AM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: Re: [kl] Vivaldi
I don't see this in the online ICA library catalog.
I did some looking on the Internet and this piece appears to be
published by Ricordi but I did not find it on the Hal Leonard web site
(the US importer).
Gary
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
| Gary Van Cott - Van Cott Information Services, Inc.
| Woodwind and Brass: Books, Music, CDs and More
| http://www.vcisinc.com/ --> VISA MasterCard Discover AmExp <--
| P.O. Box 9569, Las Vegas, NV 89191, USA
| Phone: 702-438-2102 Fax: 801-650-1719 Email: Gary@-----.com
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Daniel Leeson wrote:
> I donated a this score (and, if memory serves me correctly, a second of
> Vivaldi with the same instrumentation) to the Clarinet Library, which I
> think is in Delaware (or is it Maryland).
>
> Dan Leeson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Bassett [mailto:bassettt1@-----.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:33 AM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: [kl] Vivaldi
>
>
>
>
> Does anyone know where I can find the vivaldi concerto for 2 oboes and 2
> clarinets in C major (RV 559) ?
>
> thanks.
> Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web with
> Windows®.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588800/direct/01/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: Re: [kl] Vivaldi
From: Gary Van Cott <gary@-----.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:57:05 -0400
It may not be listed.
Gary
+------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------
| Gary Van Cott - Van Cott Information Services, Inc.
| Woodwind and Brass: Books, Music, CDs and More
| http://www.vcisinc.com/ --> VISA MasterCard Discover AmExp <--
| P.O. Box 9569, Las Vegas, NV 89191, USA
| Phone: 702-438-2102 Fax: 801-650-1719 Email: Gary@-----.com
+------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------
Daniel Leeson wrote:
> Well if they don't have it, they must have lost it because I donated it=
=2E
>=20
> Dan
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Van Cott [mailto:gary@-----.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 10:39 AM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: Re: [kl] Vivaldi
>=20
>=20
> I don't see this in the online ICA library catalog.
>=20
> I did some looking on the Internet and this piece appears to be
> published by Ricordi but I did not find it on the Hal Leonard web site
> (the US importer).
>=20
> Gary
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
> ----------
> | Gary Van Cott - Van Cott Information Services, Inc.
> | Woodwind and Brass: Books, Music, CDs and More
> | http://www.vcisinc.com/ --> VISA MasterCard Discover AmExp <--
> | P.O. Box 9569, Las Vegas, NV 89191, USA
> | Phone: 702-438-2102 Fax: 801-650-1719 Email: Gary@-----.com
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
> ----------
>=20
>=20
> Daniel Leeson wrote:
>> I donated a this score (and, if memory serves me correctly, a second o=
f
>> Vivaldi with the same instrumentation) to the Clarinet Library, which =
I
>> think is in Delaware (or is it Maryland).
>>
>> Dan Leeson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tom Bassett [mailto:bassettt1@-----.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:33 AM
>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>> Subject: [kl] Vivaldi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know where I can find the vivaldi concerto for 2 oboes and=
2
>> clarinets in C major (RV 559) ?
>>
>> thanks.
>> Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web with=
>> Windows=AE.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588800/direct/01/
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: [kl] Seeking Golijov
From: Fred Jacobowitz <fbjacobo@-----.net>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:29:16 -0400
Hi all,
I contacted Golijov's agents with no response, yet, and tried
directory info in Newton, MA; The only name there is "Sylvia" (who I
thought was his wife according to his bio in Wikipedia). I called the
# and a woman told me that it was not the right # (and wasn't
forthcoming - did they separate nastily?). Anyone have any better info?
Fred Jacobowitz
Kol Haruach Klezmer Band
Ebony and Ivory Duo
You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note.
~Doug Floyd
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Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: Tony Pay <tony.p@-----.org>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:44:20 -0400
A couple of days ago in Siena, I wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 6:29 PM, Glenn Kantor <klarinet@-----.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Again, referring to (the late) Jerry Pierce's opinions on the Poulenc
> > Sonata, he wrote that it was Georgina Dobree who was researching the
> > Poulenc and came across the various drafts that he had made for the work.
> > Anyway, she decided that some of the notes were "wrong" and convinced
> > Chester to reprint the work with the changes.
>
> > Chester followed through with what Georgina claimed were the final wishes
> > in the final drafts of Poulenc. The (4 note) changes are really quite
> > minor, but Chester probably saw an opportunity to gain a few more sales
> > in a later (different) edition.
>
> > True? Not true?
>
> If that's what Jerry Pierce said, it fits with what I know. (I
> obtained the photocopy of the MS from (the late) Thea King, who had it
> from (the late) Georgina.) The earliest version I have is 1963,
> though someone said that there is a 1962 version that contains what
> the French players seem to want. Can we confirm that?
Now at home, and with the various bits of information in front of me, I can
myself confirm that the edition I have, which I bought in December 1963 (I
recorded the fact in ink on the flyleaf in my first year at University), IS
the first published edition; and in it the disputed notes are non-F,
corresponding both to the 1973 edition produced by Thea King and Goergina
Dobree and to the latest 2000 edition.
So when Jerry Pierce (via Glenn Kantor) writes that Georgina had persuaded
Chester to reprint the work with changes resulting from her research, the
impression is given that all would have been well apart from Georgina and
Thea sticking their oar in.
But, the truth is that Chester ORIGINALLY published the work in its non-F
version, following the altered MS that had been sent them by Poulenc, and the
subsequent changes, up to 1973, are down to French and perhaps other
influences. (I look forward to whatever Cuper and Deplus have to say about
that.)
To recap, the timeline is:
(a) 1963: Non-F publication, first edition.
(b) 1963 - 1973: editions 1 to 4, at least one of which is F version (I
haven't seen them all)
(c) 1973: Chester ask Georgina and Thea to sort the matter out, resulting in
edition 5, non-F version.
Explaining this, Chester write in the foreword to the fifth edition:
"Poulenc's Sonata for Clarinet and Piano was completed by the composer only
shortly before his death in 1963 and the 1st edition was published
posthumously. Over the years, several apparent ambiguities have been called
into question, and the publishers have been grateful to a number of
correspondents for their helpful suggestions. Revisions have been made from
time to time in previous editions, but these changes have not satisfied
everyone.
"In preparing this 5th edition, the publishers would like to acknowledge with
much gratitude the assistance of Thea King and Georgina Dobree who -- from
their own long experience of the work -- have studied the manuscript and
previous editions as well as the outside comments that have reached us. They
have produced this present version which we hopefully consider to be the one
most nearly corresponding with the composer's intentions -- implicit as well
as explicit. Those already familiar with this work will find that the
changes comprise corrections of what may be classed as typographical errors
together with clarification of phrasing, dynamics etc., but will notice that
any markings which are purely editorial are shown in square brackets."
Of this foreword, Thea wrote to me on 2 February 1999:
"...that foreword is really misleading as to what we did."
She maintained that they had simply dealt with the text that they were given.
(The MS photocopies that I have provided were from her.)
Here is the remainder of her letter to me in response to my request for
clarification for the purposes of this mailing list in 1999:
"On Sunday I went to hear Moragues play the Poulenc Sonata. As expected, he
did NOT play the Dobree etc version.
"By a lucky chance, she [Georgina] rang me from Leeds on another matter, so I
asked her to remind me about the various reprintings, and did she perhaps
have a copy of the MS we were given to work from. She actually found she had
the copy we were sent -- Eureka! She believes he probably only gave that
version to the publishers. Anyway, it indicates the corrections we made --
the whole idea was to check it against the first printed version which had
been around for 10 years. I must say those 1st movt corrections go more
convincingly above the pf part. So, that was 5th edition 1973 -- but at
[illegible -- perhaps 13th?] edition people who had suspected the 5th of
careless alterations to the 1st mad a fuss (were they French?) and the whole
thing reverted. G. [Georgina] will bring the MS up to London on Sunday. You
will hear from me (I'm afraid) and I'd like to consult with you about a
message to your world-wide friends to explain things. That foreword is really
misleading as to what we did."
Thea is clearly misremembering some of this, as the editions that are non-F
come AFTER the first edition, and certainly not after the 1973 edition;
though clearly people were still playing from previously purchased editions
prior to the 5th, for years after 1973, and may be still.
In passing, you can't tell which edition you have in front of you unless you
have that information in a foreword. My first edtion copy, proved to be such
since I know I bought it in December 1963, has the date 1963 in brackets
underneath FRANCIS POULENC. The 5th edition, which I have in a photocopy of
the clarinet part sent to me by Thea, misleadingly has the date 1962 in
brackets underneath FRANCIS POULENC. But apart from that, and apart from the
fact that there are editorial changes in brackets, there is no indication
in the part itself of which edition it is.
Finally,
(d) 2000: Revised Edition, Millan Sachania, non-F.
I think Thea should have the final word:
"The fashionable preoccupation with print [surely] gobbles up time which
might be better spent trying to find what the music says which CAN'T be put
into print?"
Tony
--
_________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE
tel/fax 01865 553339
mobile +44(0)7790 532980 tony.p@-----.org
... The worst thing about censorship is XXXXX XX XXXXXX.
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: RE: [kl] Seeking Golijov
From: "Daniel Leeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:42:52 -0400
Fred, I also responded to your inquiry with the suggestion that, since he
was the composer in residence for the Boston Symphony, perhaps that might be
a good place to consider. In case you missed this the first time round, I
restate it here.
Dan Leeson
dnleeson@-----.net
SKYPE: dnleeson
-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Jacobowitz [mailto:fbjacobo@-----.net]
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 8:29 AM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: [kl] Seeking Golijov
Hi all,
I contacted Golijov's agents with no response, yet, and tried
directory info in Newton, MA; The only name there is "Sylvia" (who I
thought was his wife according to his bio in Wikipedia). I called the
# and a woman told me that it was not the right # (and wasn't
forthcoming - did they separate nastily?). Anyone have any better info?
Fred Jacobowitz
Kol Haruach Klezmer Band
Ebony and Ivory Duo
You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note.
~Doug Floyd
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Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: Tony Pay <tony.p@-----.org>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:52:57 -0400
I wrote:
> Thea is clearly misremembering some of this, as the editions that are non-F
> come AFTER the first edition, and certainly not after the 1973 edition;
> though clearly people were still playing from previously purchased editions
> prior to the 5th, for years after 1973, and may be still.
But looking again at Sean Osborn's first post, I see he writes:
> I have a 1983 (9th) edition, and it is quite different from the current
> edition.
...so Thea is right, and I'm wrong.
I also wrote:
> In passing, you can't tell which edition you have in front of you unless
> you have that information in a foreword.
Perhaps WRONG AGAIN?-)
How did you know what edition it was, Sean?
Tony
--
_________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE
tel/fax 01865 553339
mobile +44(0)7790 532980 tony.p@-----.org
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Subject: [kl] Vincent J. Abato Website
From: Adam Michlin <amichlin@-----.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 12:22:42 -0400
Dear List,
I have finally begun developing a proper website dedicated to legacy of
Vincent J. Abato. You can see the early stages at:
http://www.michlinmusic.com/abato
I have added a movement of the Elie Siegmiester's "Clarinet Concerto"
which Mr. Abato recorded with Percy Faith (only one movement was
recorded) as well as an alto saxophone recording of "Oodles of Noodles"
which Mr. Abato himself initially said was not his playing, but through
some detective work (and with the help of Al Gallodoro, the only other
saxophonist to play with Percy Faith at the time), there is about a 90%
certainty it is Mr. Abato's playing. I have also posted the text of my
tribute published in the June 2008 issue of "The Clarinet".
I have hours of audio left to post over the coming months, including
some Brahms, Mozart and some truly historic Creston recordings, as well
as a few pictures. As always, for both this and my Joe Allard Project
website (www.joeallard.org), all contributions are welcome and most
appreciated.
Best wishes,
-Adam
http://www.michlinmusic.com
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Subject: Re: [kl] Poulenc Sonata
From: Tony Pay <tony.p@-----.org>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:43:30 -0400
On 31 Aug, "sarah elbaz" <sarah@-----.com> wrote:
> Tony, I have not heard from Deplus and Cuper yet, but they were never quick
> with e mails. I will up date the list when I get an answer. Sarah
They'll have nothing to say about my post, though, which was about how Sean
knew that his edition was 9th edition, 1983.
BTW, I think you still haven't seen the implication of the MS I posted. For
example, I see that you ask in another thread, why did I post that MS, and
not the 'other' one?
Well, it's because the MS I posted is an ALTERATION to the other one, as
evidenced by the fact that you can see that Poulenc whited out 'the notes in
the other one' and wrote over them -- which shows that they were his second
rather than his first thoughts.
I have to say, one thing impresses me about this whole saga. It is that on
each of the two occasions that someone has been asked to view the evidence
and assess ON THAT BASIS what most probably Poulenc finally wanted, they have
come up with the non-F version.
I'm afraid I don't believe the argument that French clarinet players are
somehow privy to a sort of 'Frenchness' that enables them to tell which of
the two versions is more 'French' -- and therefore more likely to be Poulenc.
Both versions are plausible, which is what is a bit irritating about all of
this. See:
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/1999/01/001310.txt
Tony
--
_________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE
tel/fax 01865 553339
mobile +44(0)7790 532980 tony.p@-----.org
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Subject: Re: [kl] Vincent J. Abato Website
From: Martin Marks <martymarks@-----.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:31:33 -0400
On Sunday, August 31, 2008, at 12:22PM, "Adam Michlin" <amichlin@-----.com> wrote:
>Dear List,
>
>I have finally begun developing a proper website dedicated to legacy of
>Vincent J. Abato. You can see the early stages at:
>
>http://www.michlinmusic.com/abato
>
>I have added a movement of the Elie Siegmiester's "Clarinet Concerto"
>which Mr. Abato recorded with Percy Faith (only one movement was
>recorded) as well as an alto saxophone recording of "Oodles of Noodles"
>which Mr. Abato himself initially said was not his playing, but through
>some detective work (and with the help of Al Gallodoro, the only other
>saxophonist to play with Percy Faith at the time), there is about a 90%
>certainty it is Mr. Abato's playing. I have also posted the text of my
>tribute published in the June 2008 issue of "The Clarinet".
>
Hi Adam,
It's a small world. I met Jimmy Abato in 1950 through my uncle, Sammy Spears, who was the conductor and music director
for the Jackie Gleason Show in New York City. Jimmy was playing lead alto and my saxophone teacher, Sid Cooper was the
2nd alto player. Shortly thereafter I auditioned for Julliard as a clarinet major. I don't remember anyone else but Jimmy Abato
in the audition room, but I was accepted as a Duques student. I vividly remember Jimmy Abato playing lead alto on the
tune, "Tenderly" when Gleason did his "Poor Soul" bit. Gorgeous sound, played pp with amazing control. It's still in my head.
Good luck with your project.
Marty Marks
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Subject: [kl] David Krakauer
From: Fred Jacobowitz <fbjacobo@-----.net>
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 23:05:38 -0400
Has anyone heard from David Krakauer recently? I sent at least 3 e-
mail messages and have left phone messages as well, but have not
gotten a reply. Is he OK?
Fred Jacobowitz
Kol Haruach Klezmer Band
Ebony and Ivory Duo
You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note.
~Doug Floyd
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Subject: [kl] Gustavino - Sonata
From: Joze Kotar <jkotar@-----.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:14:35 -0400
Hello,
I'm searching for Sonata by Gustavino. Can somebody help me, where can i Ge it?
Joze Kotar
Joze Kotar - principal clarinet at Ljubljana Radio Symphony Orchestra professor at Music Academy in Ljubljana, Slovenia
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Subject: Re: [kl] Gustavino - Sonata
From: "Mark Charette" <charette@-----.org>
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:23:45 -0400
> Hello,
>
> I'm searching for Sonata by Gustavino. Can somebody help me, where can i
> Ge it?
http://www.alma-usa.com/guastavino.htm
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Subject: Re: [kl] Guastavino - Sonata
From: Gary Van Cott <gary@-----.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:24:00 -0400
This is published by Ricordi Argentina (which has a different name now).
http://www.ricordimusica.com.ar/template-i.asp?op=guastavino-i
I have never had any luck in trying to get this from them on any kind of
reasonable terms and with reasonable communication and I understand my
experience is not unique.
Note spelling: Guastavino
Gary
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Gary Van Cott - Van Cott Information Services, Inc.
| Woodwind and Brass: Books, Music, CDs and More
| http://www.vcisinc.com/ --> VISA MasterCard Discover AmExp <--
| P.O. Box 9569, Las Vegas, NV 89191, USA
| Phone: 702-438-2102 Fax: 801-650-1719 Email: Gary@-----.com
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joze Kotar wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm searching for Sonata by Gustavino. Can somebody help me, where can i Ge it?
>
> Joze Kotar
>
> Joze Kotar - principal clarinet at Ljubljana Radio Symphony Orchestra professor at Music Academy in Ljubljana, Slovenia
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Subject: Re: [kl] Gustavino - Sonata
From: Gary Van Cott <gary@-----.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:31:56 -0400
This company disappeared a number of years ago. I was very briefly in
contact with them prior to that. Their phone and email address do not work.
It is unfortunate it is still there on the internet to tease us.
Gary
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Gary Van Cott - Van Cott Information Services, Inc.
| Woodwind and Brass: Books, Music, CDs and More
| http://www.vcisinc.com/ --> VISA MasterCard Discover AmExp <--
| P.O. Box 9569, Las Vegas, NV 89191, USA
| Phone: 702-438-2102 Fax: 801-650-1719 Email: Gary@-----.com
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Charette wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm searching for Sonata by Gustavino. Can somebody help me, where can i
>> Ge it?
>
> http://www.alma-usa.com/guastavino.htm
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Subject: Re: [kl] Gustavino - Sonata
From: "Mark Charette" <charette@-----.org>
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:39:48 -0400
> This company disappeared a number of years ago. I was very briefly in
> contact with them prior to that. Their phone and email address do not
> work.
Phone works (at least a voice mail box). I've left a message ...
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Subject: [kl] The Poulenc Sonata
From: "Daniel Leeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:02:49 -0400
I was lying in bed last night trying to think of when I had seen a thread on
klarinet that was so interesting, comprehensive, and insightful as the
recently concluded one on the Poulenc Sonata. The breadth of the comments
and the dispersal of both the inquiries and responses was simply
breathtaking.
I saw it as an inquiry that could be used as a model for a class studying
the various prolems in historical musicology.
The postings had two distinct phases, which often overlapped. First there
was the evolution of the problem's description, because, like any problem,
the expression of it took several turns to become really clear. Which
editon? Which date? Which player? Which perspective? It was a particularly
insightful phase. Second, was the drive to the various solutions, which I
found equally enlightenting.
I'm very impressed, and somewhat saddened that I could not make a
contribution to that analysis so easily begun by Sean Osborne's deceptively
simple question, and then which turned into a hurricane of creativity.
It was an effort not seen very frequently and everyone who contributed
should is to be congratulated, with special kudos going to Tony Pay.
Dan Leeson
dnleeson@-----.net
SKYPE: dnleeson
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Subject: Re: [kl] Gustavino - Sonata
From: "Mark Charette" <charette@-----.org>
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:06:02 -0400
Also listed at ICA library for checkout ...
http://www.lib.umd.edu/PAL/SCPA/clarpnoduoG.html
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Subject: [kl] New Chamber Music CD containing Clarinet
From: Retiredprof55 <retiredprof55@-----.net>
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:26:08 -0400
Emeritus Recordings has just released a new CD that contains some of =20=
my chamber music compositions and several of them feature the =20
clarinet. The performers on =93Collage=94 include Conundrum, =
Cincinnati=92s =20
Premiere Chamber Ensemble along with the winners of the prestigious Co-=20=
op Press 2007 Recording Competition that includes members of the New =20
World Symphony. The works on the CD that contain clarinet are =93Scenes =20=
from Tom Sawyer=94 for flute, clarinet, piano, and narrator; and =93Four =
=20
Poems=94 for soprano, flute, clarinet, and piano. The CD and music can =20=
be previewed and purchased by visiting www.cooppress.hostrack.net/
I also recently adapted the =93Scenes from Tom Sawyer=94 for Woodwind =20=
Quintet at the request of John Rush, principal flute with the Tulsa =20
Symphony Orchestra. It is available through the above website.
I hope that you enjoy my music.
Dr. Sy Brandon, composer
Professor Emeritus
Millersville University=
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Subject: [kl] Kabelac Wind Sextet score
From: "Jason Alder" <alderjas@-----.edu>
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 08:48:12 -0400
Does anyone have any clue where I can find a copy of the scores for
the Kabelac Wind Sextet? Other than mentions of it in Kabelac rep
lists and the one recording I have of it, it barely seems to exist.
Any clues? Or does anyone speak Czech that might have some better
search words on czech engines or stores for me to use?
Thanks
~Jason
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Subject: Re: [kl] Kabelac Wind Sextet score
From: "Mark Charette" <charette@-----.org>
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 11:33:25 -0400
> Does anyone have any clue where I can find a copy of the scores for
> the Kabelac Wind Sextet? Other than mentions of it in Kabelac rep
> lists and the one recording I have of it, it barely seems to exist.
> Any clues?
http://www.musica.cz/comp/kabelac.htm shows it as:
CHF Materials for hire are available in:
Czech Music Fund, Hire Library,
CZ, 120 99 Praha 2, Rimska 13
Tel: +420-221553315, Fax: +420-221553355
e-mail: kzizkova@-----.musicbase/pujcovna
and
EBP Editio Baerenreiter Praha, s.r.o.
(former Editio Supraphon, Editio Praga, including production of SHV,
SNKLHU)
CZ, 100 00 Praha 10, Bechovicka 26.
tel.(00420-2) 74783342, 74781006,
tel. a/and fax 74779804
www.editio-baerenreiter.cz
http://www.musicbase.cz/pujcovna/?jzk=EN (note .cz) gives instructions for
ordering from the rental shop.
www.editio-baerenreiter.cz shows
Kabelac Miloslav
Wind Sextet op.8
Catalogue number: H 2023
(1908-1979)
Publication type: pocket score
Scoring detailed:
flute, english horn, two clarinets, horn and bassoon
Publication lang.: cz.
(For flute, English horn, clarinet, saxophone, French horn and bassoon
Available only as an authorised copy on demand,
the price will be looked at individually
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Subject: [kl] Commercial message - Festivals and Prestiges available
From: GrabnerWG@-----.com
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:55:24 -0400
Please excuse the commercial message.
Quite a few people over the summer have contacted me about the availability
of both Prestige and Festival clarinets. It's true that they have been hard
to find.
I finally have some in stock, so if you are interested, please inquire.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
New Buffet Clarinets
World Class Clarinet Mouthpieces
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
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